Let it be a warning story for you, regarding smart home solutions.
Two years ago we have bough a house. Together with the house came a thermostat for controlling the gas boiler. The one from the smart kind.
Since the very beginning it was clear to me, this particular solution is a crap. The only way to control it was by login to the external web page and set the schedule and temperatures there, and the device at home periodically has checked if there is a change to fetch. Also, this particular device has only volatile memory. So, when power is turned off, the device needs to fetch the settings from the server.
I've tried to replace it with another smart solution, but failed at it (and I have wrote a little bit about that as well).
So, I am still using the one which came with the house.
And the servers went down somewhen during last two weeks. So far the device is still working, with recent settings. So, I am not in dire needs. However, the first power failure means I am being left without heating.
And what is the lesson for you? If you want to buy any kind of smart home solution, please make sure it will work decently without internet connection.
The very basic check you can do is to open https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/, find if there is available support for the device you want to buy, and check its IoT class. If this is local push or local polling, it would rather be OK. If this is a cloud push/cloud pulling, then further research is needed, as without the internet (or servers) available, the device's functionality will be degraded. Sometimes slightly, sometimes severely. And it is up to you to decide, if it is OK to be stuck with device having degraded functionality.
PS. To make this clear - I have a backup plan, so no advice is needed. Unless you have a recommendation of a smart thermostat with temperature zone control, which works fully locally. Then I'd be glad to hear.
Now, some backstory and names dropping.
The solution I have now, which has failed, is called #Thermosmart.
Last year I've tried one from #Plugwise. Functionally wise it was exactly what I was looking for. However, quality wise, it was a nightmare. To keep it short. From 9 thermostatic valves I've ordered, 3 were broken and 1 was suspicious. And after two weeks since the installation, the central unit has broken. I've contacted their support. However, I was very dissatisfied with them. Especially, that they required a payment for diagnose of broken h/w, even during the warranty period. So, finally, we have agreed I will return the product and they will refund me. And that is what has happened. I've got my money back, and switched to the old Thermosmart device.
Some time ago (few weeks or so) my wife told me, that Plugwise bought the Thermosmart. "Oh, fuck" - I thought - "that's not going to end well". But a lot of things were happening at the time. Yes, the priority of finding the replacement has been increased significantly, but it wasn't the top one. I really had more important stuff to do.
The first sign that something is going to be wrong was the expiration of their SSL certificate for their webpage. But everything was still working properly. I was able to change the settings and the device has fetched the changes. However it still says something about the security, isn't it?
Then we went for a holidays. Few days before that we have set the period of reduced heating for our absence, then enjoyed the vacations.
When checking the state of the house in the Home Assistant I have noticed that temperature is being kept and the gas usage is as usual, during those temperatures. At first we thought this is a PEBKAC (Problem Exist Between Keyboard And Chair) and we did something wrong when setting the absence period. And decided we can do nothing, and continued enjoying the holiday break.
On Sunday I've checked up what's going on.
Oops.
The settings webinterface is not responding. The main page is empty. Quick websearch told me the Thermosmart went bankrupt on May 9th, 2023.
I've checked the email account dedicated for crappy smarthome solutions. Indeed, there was an email, sent 5 month after the bankruptcy, that the Thermosmart were bought by Plugwise, which is going to continue the support for old Thermosmart devices.
And the (very short) rest of the story is on their webpage: http://www.plugwise.com/thermosmart/
For quick reference, a quick timeline:
* 2023.05.09 - Thermosmart went bankrupt
* 2023.10.09 - Email about taking over the responsibilities by Plugwise
* 2023.11.20 - Announcement about the servers malfunction (is it only the SSL certificate or sth more?)
* Mid January 2024 - things went apeshit.
Well. I'm glad I took the Monday off. At least I have the time to deal with the issue.
Edit: you may find this forum thread to be interesting as well: https://www.domoticz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40868
Haha. End of story: "I switched to another device (Honeywell) already, but got a email from Plugwise that then gonna stop with Themosmart support." (from https://www.domoticz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=310771&sid=89e560f9d3dc3dc878f43b7544ce6f4b#p310771)
And no, I have not received any email apart from the one I've already mentioned.
@agturcz this is absolutely infuriating. And it sucks that you’re going through this. I often think about going all in on a smart home set up for us but then I read things like this and...absolutely not.
@Daojoan Thank you. I had two years to mentally prepare for such outcome. I am annoyed, but not surprised.
I am also slightly irritated, but by myself only, because of not dealing with the crappy solution for two years. Well.
And with the smart home solutions - the truth is, when done even in a substandard way, they can improve the quality of life. However, the proper ones are costly. Either directly in money, or in time you are investing to make a DIY solution from whatever more or less crap is available on the market.
If you consider making a smart home as a project, there is a chance for you to enjoy it, as overcoming difficulties might be rewarding. But if you just want to have something working without putting to much effort into that, then, well...
@agturcz I look forward to hearing what you do. I'm descending the home assistant rabbit hole and the next stop is our heating but I need devices that work with home assistant without any third party involvement.
@chrisgerhard Right now I am going to buy something dumb, which would allow me to set a weekly schedule of heating. Something like https://www.thermostaat.eu/product/2074597/vesta-500-de-slimme-thermostaat - absolutely off-line, programmed by buttons, no API at all. And then calmly look for more smart replacement fulfilling my needs. Which I perhaps buy during the next 5 years :]
@chrisgerhard Finally, I'm ordering Emos P5606OT.
@chrisgerhard @agturcz
I am using a Honeywell Pro Series Z-Wave thermostat with Home Assistant. No WiFi, no app involved.
The Honeywell can run on AA batteries, and has minimal programmability, but I simply created all the schedules in HA using the delightfully competent and simple
https://github.com/nielsfaber/scheduler-component
So, even if there's a total HA meltdown, the heat stays on.
@agturcz oh dang that's really crap...
Do you know why the servers went down? Did the company go bust? Is it a "temporary" (two-week-long already...) issue?
@rysiek Bear with me, please. I'm writing the kind of post-mortem just now :)
@agturcz
@rysiek Done, as a reply to the OT.
@witewulf Evohome was the very first solution I've been considering. However, as you wrote, it requires internet connection for the API. And I've changed for Plugwise, which become a failure as well.
@agturcz @srtcd424 @witewulf I back Wiser! They are nice to the HA developer who provides local HA support! But in general Wise eco system is decent. Slightly pricey if you need to get one of their plugs to use as an extension of “their” zigbee network! Someday I’ll bend them to my will and move them all to my zigbee network managed by zigbee2mqtt!
@piofthings @agturcz @srtcd424 @witewulf I went and home -brewed my setup precisely to avoid this scenario back in around 2017.
HA or Domoticz can handle the simple logic for zoned heating; I have some scripts for Domo if you're interested.
Sonoff relays w/Tasmota firmware for control. Cheap mains voltage heating valve drivers for radiator on/off. A mix of Sonoff and Oregon Scientific RF temperature sensors. WiFi, but no internet required. So far very few faults
@agturcz The "hacky" solution for completely offline would be using https://adapter.ebusd.eu/v5/index.en.html if your heater speaks ebus, then you can just set up your own sensors willy nilly and just trigger the heating on/off via Home Assistant, all locally.
(Didn't manage to install mine before this heating phase, so no experience yet.)
@towo My one is OpenTherm capable. And, indeed, the solution based on zigbee valves and sensors, and OpenTherm Gateway has crossed my mind, but that would become a "project". Which I would prefer to avoid at the very moment :D
@agturcz Oh, while it's completely unhelpful, others might find it interesting.. I just finished to read stuff I bookmarked over the weekend, when your post popped up... https://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2018/12/24/the-internet-of-unprofitable-things/ by @grifferz, and https://laplab.me/posts/whats-that-touchscreen-in-my-room/ by @laplab ... very interesting read on both occasions. And good luck to you :)
@unjello Oh, that's quite a stories. @pluralistic, you may want to check them.
He [ @pluralistic ] could also maybe want to write a script for a "not" comic book about a supervillain called The Enshittyfiacator [ Lucha Libre style ]
also if anyone wants to use that idea - feel free to do so, just please use the money to better our future for all
@agturcz Lets all spread the word to buy "cloud-free" products!
@agturcz Back in 2018 I fully renovated my house and had kind of a discussion with the architect that was following the project if I wanted a smart house. I initially thought that would have been nice, but then realized this kind of problems and the associated headaches. So I thought about doing something DIY, but didn't really had the time and energy to study, implement, and maintain such a thing. Ended up living in a dumb house like I did for the prior 40 years. At least it's dependable.
@dukeboitans Right now if I do the fully renovation, I will probably place wires for KNX. This solution is rather on the expensive side, but at least this is an industrial standard (used from offices, through hotels, to airports), and there are plenty of components made by different producers. However, that is not going to happen in the next two years. Or even more.
@agturcz FL is asking if you could publish it on the LinkedIn as well
Btw it seems that solution with koza or tile stove is what I will aim if I would ever move to detached
@shigella I would rather not. But feel free to copy paste it there in verbatim, or just the link, or both.
@agturcz It's so unfortunate that the best 'standard' API for home automation is HomeKit. Home Assistant has decent support for 'works with HomeKit' stuff, so unless/until Apple decides to lock it down like everything else they do, it's a reasonable way out in a lot of cases. Matter is promising as a future vendor-neutral solution, but doesn't have the penetration yet.
Personally I am avoiding any automation stuff that uses WiFi because who knows the dragons that live in their IP and cloud stack. Zigbee/ ZWave stuff is more or less guaranteed to live 'forever' and won't leak access to my private network.
@agturcz
What a bad experience for an important system in your home! Glad you found a solution in the end.
When I lived in a big house I tinkered with home automation using Home Assistant. It was useful but occasionally challenging.
Now I live in a well designed much smaller and more convenient place and I found I don't really need automation. I came to the conclusion that automation is only good if my life or home is inherently complex and hard to manage, or maybe accessibility issues.
@agturcz maybe not a 'recommendation' per se but wanted to share: I set up zoned heating with a number of Shelly TRV knobs talking directly to Home Assistant. HA drives my heater (with an on/off relais, no OpenTherm (yet?)).
Fairly happy with it, though I do see the occasional glitch when a knob is briefly off wifi. In retrospect I think it might have been better to use MQTT to talk to he knobs instead of CoIoT, might change that at some point.
@agturcz also being able to ”go dumb” is always a preffered backup solution when it comes to homeautomation. I hope you find a good solution.